Meeting at Hidden Earth



Wookey, Andrew Atkinson, Dave Clucas, Allan Richardson, Paul Mann, Thom Starnes,

Trevour Faulkner, John Stevens, Julian Todd. One/two other (quiet) people?

Footleg for last 15 mins.



Previous minutes agreed (after clarifying to AllanR that he was only

down for arranging events, not knowing anything about fancy tech)


Activities this year


2 training sessions:

One in Derbyshire (Footleg+ John Stevens). Dozen people

One in Mendip (Footleg, Andrew, John Stevens) 15 people, 6 more came back for a further afternoon for more info


Kevin has got distos (X310) for competion prizes


1 for data

1 for survey

(x 3years)


Discussion on survey comps for next year


Agreed that survey course was dead for the time being - it was lots of work to run and not very popular/interesting. [Someone did come and ask Wookey during the weekend where it was 'as they normally enter' and was a little disapointed that it was no longer being run]


Currently we have one survey comp for any survey with no restriction on paper/computer/other medium. Awarded by delegate vote.

For 1st time this year the judges dished out merit/ditinction rosettes.

Should we split the survey into 2 or more categories for EuroSpeleo? Or have 1 delegate vote, 1 awarded?

There were 5 entries (on balcony this year. Rather out of the way).


big survey, little survey?




Arthur butcher also exists for any surveying achievement and/or publication.  We tend to give it for any significant contibution, or notable new work, especially now there there are separate data and survey comps.

 Chelsea want to give prizes to surveys specifically (as opposed to to HE generally), (Paul Mann has done this in the past, and would again)

 After some more discussion it was resolved that next year we would have:

* A3 area or smaller delegate vote.

* bigger than A3 .delegate vote.

* Non-paper survey. Judged by Organisers.

* Arthur butcher. Judged by Organisers.

 i.e data archive award dropped.


ACTION: Andrew write some rules in good time for people to enter.


Trevor asked about minimum mandatory standards for entries, e.g. Elevation, N-arrow and scale. This is a problem if non-paper surveys are allowed, and if we want to allow creativity. The US survey comp got quite hidebound due to developing increasingly long judging ticklist. We want to avoid that (and associated work).

Instead we just propose to publish feedback. ACTION Footleg will do.

Some comments on each survey in closing ceremony. Wookey did, and surveys were shown, so profile is raised. We want to be on par with the photo comps.

Discussion about lack of prominence of surveys at HE. Balcony this year was somewhat out of the way in comparison to photo boards. Display boards are rented in for photo+art.

How much space? (not known in advance). Could have gone on windows this year.  Need to ensure we are considered early enough in site

selection process.  Allan suggested that Margaret Richardson could do this?  We need to be on the HE org list to get things decided in time

Get andrew on the mailing list. (ask gibson? cookie?) ACTION: Andrew (done, but not checked)

Fotleg pointed out that he is both the photo people and the survey people so there is not an us/them fight - just people getting used to the idea that there _is_ a surveycomp and it needs space. Things are currently getting a bit better organised each year, so we don't need to worry unless we get real pushback.

Last year's actions

* Advanced training didn't happen last year.

 Suggested topics: Therion beyonmd the basics.

Self-help and stuff on point clouds. Maybe GIS.

Effectively a Cave surveying group meet.

Training. SWCC in March. (12th/13th provisionally set) ACTION: Allan

 Northern: Tunneling. Julian will do one for ULSA anyway, and we should invite people generally. ACTION: Julian

 Peak district training was requested and done

 Survey feedback (publishing) didn't get done due to Andrew's personal disasters (try again. ACTION: Footleg undertook to write-up.)


Dave clucas is now webmaster and has everything except SQL access. ACTION Andrew to provide access.


Survey Training at BCA party? Was arranged and forwarded to Kevin but did not take place..  ACTION DaveC will check they still like it.

 Cave-surveying mailing list to be used for internal comms



This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


John stevens

ACTION: Wookey


CHECC - report From Thom Starnes


Henry Dawson does survey training and closed loop competition. Compass and clino 2-3 hours instruction+closed loop. Will use distoX a they

now have one (which Brendan took to Austria).

CSG money could be used.

Paul could sponsor a prize.


Wookey didn't update software list.

 Still true. carry over. ACTION Wookey


BCRA to adopt UIS symbols.

 Was started, and BCRA replied. Stalled on Andrew, conversation will continue.

  ACTION: Andrew


Making Joomla (archive website) + data archive (svn) passwords match.

 Wookey and Adnrew both did some reasearch. Neither managed to fix it yet.

 Continues... ACTION: Wookey/Andrew


Data archive is now backed up (in two locations)


Trevor Faulkner asked about CSG/BCRA relationship.


 We said we were happy to be associated with BCRA, but would not commit to any significant extra process (reports, financial reports, meeting attendance, asking for permission). We currently send out the minutes of these annual meetings (our only meeting). We have just about enough energy to do the things we do (training/archive/competitions) and no more. BCRA can call us a SIG if they want to, or disown us if they want to.

There is now no finance to worry about (except left-over ~300 which is reserved for any useful actions), which may help BCRA accept satus quo as benficial (charity rules being one of main concerns).

 BCRA needs 3 members. Turns out we have 3 (PaulM, AllanR, DaveC). CSG does not have any membership structure any more: it's 'anyone interested'.

 ACTION AllanR said (afterwards) he would see if a settlement could be reached.